Showing posts with label Peter's confession. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Peter's confession. Show all posts

Tuesday, December 3, 2019

Synoptic Problem # 1: Matthew's dishonest fabrication of Christ-sayings

One of the synoptic parallels seems to naturally resist attempts by inerrantists to explain it away as a case of an author's right to exclude something:

Mark 8
Matthew 16
27 Jesus went out, along with His disciples, to the villages of Caesarea Philippi; and on the way He questioned His disciples, saying to them, 
 "Who do people say that I am?"


 28 They told Him, saying, "John the Baptist; and others say Elijah; but others, one of the prophets."
 29 And He continued by questioning them, "But who do you say that I am?"

Peter answered and said to Him,
"You are the Christ."











  






 30 And He warned them to tell no one about Him.
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, 

"Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"


 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."
 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

 16 Simon Peter answered, 
"You are the Christ,

the Son of the living God."

 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
 18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

 20 Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.


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The context for each is identical, so this is certainly not Jesus talking similarly on two separate occasions, this is one singular event being reported by two different authors.

What's more likely?  That Mark knew Peter uttered the longer form of the confession, but knowingly "chose to abbreviate it?  Or that Mark's version of the confession is shorter because the author didn't know about any longer version?  

What is more likely?  Mark knew that Jesus said all that extra stuff about Peter, but "chose to exclude" such profoundly important authority-establishing Christ-sayings, for his own "authorial purpose"?  or

Mark doesn't relate as much as Matthew because Mark had no reason to think Jesus said the things now confined to Matthew's version?

Such a debate involves probability judgments on how close Mark was to Peter, and whether Peter, as a leader, would likely or not likely have considered such a glowing personal endorsement from God-incarnate important enough to preserve and articulate in his preaching tours.

Dr. William Barrick wrote an article in which he tried to explain this as a case of Matthew accurately reporting, and Mark choosing for his own reasons to create a more "abbreviated" account.  See here.

I sent Dr. Barrick the following through his website contact form, which included my email address:
I read your explanation of the synoptic differences on Peter's confession at https://drbarrick.org/the-synoptic-gospels-inerrancy-what-did-peter-say/ 
Since the more expanded version in Matthew supports Peter's authority, and since the apostolic church was divided on Peter's authority (1st Cor. 1:12) can you really say it is "unreasonable" to insist that Mark would never have knowingly excluded such words from his account...and therefore...Mark is not excluding anything, Matthew is guilty of putting in Jesus' mouth words he never spoke?
 I accept Markan priority, and isn't it true that embellishments are more likely to show up in the later retellings, than in the original?
 While my theory might attack inerrancy or gospel reliability, I can't sympathize with that concern since I deny both doctrines.  I deny them because
 a) I feel certain biblical errors are real and not merely apparent; 
b) the bible doesn't teach the "only in the originals" inerrancy-caveat of the CSBI statement, so the specter of the bible extending inspiration or inerrancy to "copies" (i.e., the bible contradicting the CSBI) looms large;  and 
c) the vast majority of conservative Christian scholars accuse Matthew of "toning down" some expressions he copied from Mark...something he would hardly do if he felt Mark's gospel was "inerrant".
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I will wait to see if Dr. Barrick replies.  For now, I'm not seeing any academic or objective justification for the inerrantist to automatically assume that Mark knowingly excluded otherwise important theology merely because such is "possible".

I don't claim the inerrantist theories are impossible, so you are not "defeating" any opposing hypothesis merely because your own theory is "possible".

You are also not "defeating" any opposing hypothesis merely because you can drum up a few supporting evidences for your theory.  You'd have to extend that luxury to anybody whose counter-theory had some supporting evidences, and then you'd endure the illogical outcome that both parties "won" that debate.

What actually happened in ancient history is not determined by mere possibilities, otherwise, both sides of every historical debate would 'win', which is illogical.

What actually happened in ancient history is determined by probabilities (i.e., whose theory to explain the evidence is more probable, or, can both theories boast of equal likelihood?).

That being the case, the Christian apologist is not "defeating" my above-stated theory by simply pointing out that his own counter-theory can be "supported".  Very few positions on biblical matters are without at least some support. No fool thinks all scholars win every biblical debate.

You need to show that your inerrantist-theory is more likely to be true than my skeptical theory that says Matthew invented the longer version.

While I expect apologists to be honest and engage with me in argument, I also expect James Patrick Holding to deceive his followers into thinking a 2 minute cartoon video that feeds his narcissistic lust will conclusively dispose of this allegation of error in the bible.  Yes, that is his idea of "rebuttal".
 "You are wrong, here's the reasons, you could not possibly have any significant rejoinder, so, discussion closed to everybody except those whose comments I choose not to delete."
Doesn't your heart just race with fear at the very thought of disagreeing with such a fearless warrior?  I can barely type, I'm shaking so bad.  LOL

Always remember:  it wouldn't even matter if you the skeptic conceded the miracle of Jesus' resurrection for the sake of argument:  the god of the Christians does not think a person's working a genuinely supernatural miracle automatically justifies their theology, a worker of real miracles can STILL be condemned by God for promoting false theology:
 1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
 4 "You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
 5 "But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.
 (Deut. 13:1-5 NAU)
So, obviously, the bible-god disagrees with modern loud-mouth Christian apologists like Frank Turek who insist that if Jesus truly rose from the dead, this miracle automatically proves he is the true Son of God.

Jason Engwer doesn't appreciate the strong justification for skepticism found in John 7:5

Bart Ehrman, like thousands of other skeptics, uses Mark 3:21 and John 7:5 to argue that Jesus' virgin birth (VB) is fiction.  Jason Eng...