Yes, Mr. Wallace, Jesus said things logically incompatible with his being 'god'

This is my reply to an article by J. Warner Wallace entitled.

Cold Case Christianity: Quick Shot: “Jesus didn’t even think He was God”

Posted: 08 Jul 2019 01:12 AM PDT 

Our “Quick Shot” series offers brief answers to common objections to the Christian worldview.

Thus encouraging your devoted followers to mistake superficial study with growing in the Spirit.  You may as well encourage Mormons to be sure and read one page from the Book of Mormon each day.

Each response is limited to one paragraph. These responses are designed to (1) answer the objection as concisely as possible, (2) challenge the objector to think more deeply about his or her claim, and (3) facilitate a “gospel” conversation. In this article, we’re offering “Quick Shot” responses to the objection, Quick Shot: “Jesus didn’t even think He was God.”

And as we'll see, you fail miserably, so we need not wonder why you constantly pander to people who lack critical thinking skills, and you conveniently never do what Frank Turek does, and debate informed skeptics who know the bible better than you.  You have to know that most Christians care more about the good feeling they get from your writings, and less about whether you can answer specific challenges.

For now, what Jesus allegedly said in Matthew 26:39 is logically incompatible with the notion that he is himself "god" or perfectly equal to god:

 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed.
 38 Then He said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."
 39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."
 40 And He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, "So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour?    (Matt. 26:37-40 NAU)

if you were a dishwasher and you said to the manager "if it be possible, let me go home early, nevertheless not as I will, but as you will", it would be clear to any observer that your will was not always in conformity to your manager's will.  That much is obvious from Jesus' phrase "not as i will....".  If his own will was identical to the Father's, he would never have had any logical justification to talk in a way that makes his will appear different than the Father's

You will say Jesus was speaking from his human nature not his divine.  But even if we granted the illogical premise of a living being having two natures, you are admitting that Jesus' human will was contrary to God the Father's will.  That's theologically dangerous to say the least.  Wasn't Jesus' human nature always in perfect obedience to the Father's will?  You don't have a choice: you say "no" and you infuse sin into Jesus' human nature.  You say "yes", and you leave yourself with no way to account for his statement in Matthew 26:39.

Moreover, there is no sense to pretending Jesus could turn one of his allegedly two natures on and off like a light switch, therefore, he was in all likelihood speaking from BOTH natures whenever he said something.  After all, that's what a "nature" is, it is the base portion of a person that they cannot avoid implicating whenever they speak or act....in which case, it was his divine nature too that was saying "not my will...".

Wallace continues:

Response #1:
“Jesus consistently spoke as though he was God. All the other biblical ‘wise men’ – the Old Testament prophets, for example – spoke for God. They always started their declarations with ‘This is what the LORD Almighty says…’ or ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says.’ But Jesus never spoke like that. Instead, Jesus said, ‘I tell you the truth…’ Jesus never spoke for God, like the prophets who preceded him. Jesus spoke as God. Why would he speak that way if he didn’t think he was God?”

Mike Licona and Craig Evans don't think many of John's Christ-sayings are things Jesus actually said, and they accuse John's author of further "theological artistry" that sacrificed actual history for the sake of theology.  Clearly, you aren't engaging with skeptics, so your "jesus spoke more authoritatively than the prophets" crap does precisely nothing to disturb the skeptics.

Jesus never spoke for God, like the prophets who preceded him. Jesus spoke as God. Why would he speak that way if he didn’t think he was God?

Because the gospel authors were embellishing what he really said, which is a reasonable option among the available alternatives.  Now what?  Are you going to insist that skeptics don't know what they are talking about unless they embroil themselves in all of the ways that Mike Licona and Lydia McGrew disagree with each other on biblical inerrancy?  FUCK YOU.   Let god's likeminded ones get their act together first, before they pretend to go to war against skeptics.

Response #2:
“If Jesus didn’t think he was God, why did he accept the worship of others?

What Jesus thought of himself appears to have evolved over time (Luke 2:52), so your acting as if his recorded statements in the gospels are the end of the matter, is stupid.  Unless of course you specifically admit that you aren't giving these answers to refute skeptics, you are only giving them to impress your gullible followers, who, like Mormons, are ripe and ready to accept any damn thing that might look like it supports their faith.

The Jewish people were raised with the Ten Commandments, the first of which is: ‘I am the Lord your God… You shall have no other gods before Me.’ For this reason, Jewish believers did not offer worship to anyone other than Yahweh, and to accept worship as God was blasphemous. But that’s exactly what Jesus did… repeatedly. He accepted worship from his disciples, from those he healed (like the leper and the blind man), and even from the synagogue ruler. Why would Jesus do something so blasphemous if he didn’t think he was God?”

Maybe for the same reason the Angel of the Lord is not the Lord, but still talks as if he is anyway?

 10 Moreover, the angel of the LORD said to her, "I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be too many to count."
 11 The angel of the LORD said to her further, "Behold, you are with child, And you will bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael, Because the LORD has given heed to your affliction. (Gen. 16:10-11 NAU)
 11 But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
 12 He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." (Gen. 22:11-12 NAU)
 15 Then the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven,
 16 and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son,
 17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.
 18 "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." (Gen. 22:15-18 NAU)

Apparently, ancient Judaism had a doctrine that was convoluted:  a being was not "god", but yet could speak as if he was anyway.  Perhaps the infinite creator just couldn't think of a better way to make sure sinful imperfect mankind correctly understood his stupid shit?

Jesus accepted worship from his disciples, from those he healed, and even from the synagogue ruler. Why would Jesus do something so blasphemous if he didn’t think he was God?

Sorry, I don't believe everything the gospels say about Jesus.  Back up and try again.

Response #3:
“Jesus certainly said enough to indicate he thought he was God. He claimed to have the same place of origin as God (John 8:23-24). He said he had authority over the angels like God (Matthew 13:41). He even claimed equality to God (John 10:25-29). The Jews who heard him understood what these statements meant. In fact, they accused Jesus of claiming to be God and wanted to stone him to death for his claims to Deity. Have you considered the fact that the people who heard Jesus understood Him clearly?”

Have you considered the fact that Licona's and Evans' denials that John portrays what Jesus actually said, give skeptics more than enough intellectual justification to just laugh at the gospel of John and its lofty fraudulent theological bullshit?

The Jews who heard Jesus understood what these statements meant. In fact, they accused Jesus of claiming to be God and wanted to stone him to death for his claims to Deity.
 Our “Quick Shot” series was written specifically for the Cold-Case Christianity App (you can download it on Apple and Android platforms – be sure to register once you download the App). When confronted with an objection in casual conversation, App users can quickly find an answer without having to scroll beyond the first screen in the category. Use the App “Quick Shots” along with the “Rapid Responses” and Case Making “Cheat Sheets” to become a better Christian Case Maker.

And yet you also want your followers to think the Holy Spirit has any responsibility to do any work here?

But Jesus specifically counseled that his disciples should not worry about what they will say to others in the future, because the Holy Spirit would bring to their remembrance at that time whatever they might need to say:

 19 "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say.
 20 "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. (Matt. 10:19-20 NAU)

 12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name's sake.
 13 "It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony.
 14 "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;
 15 for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. (Lk. 21:12-15 NAU) 

Jesus also allegedly instructed his disciples to convey ALL of his teachings to future Gentile disciples:

 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."    (Matt. 28:17-20 NAU)

And like the typical Pharisee that you and other Christian apologists are, you will trifle that in context Jesus was only talking about legal persecution where by christians are dragged into non-Christian courts.

But that Jesus meant his words to have wide application is clear from his other ridiculous teachings, such as that the disciples shouldn't toil or spin in the effort to have daily food and clothing, but to take no thought for such things, as they would be magically given to the disciples as long as they fix their gaze solely upon promoting Jesus' bullshit:

 25 "For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
 26 "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
 27 "And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?
 28 "And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin,
 29 yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these.
 30 "But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!
 31 "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'
 32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
 33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
 34 "So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. (Matt. 6:25-34 NAU) 

Since there is nothing in the context to indicate a limitation on Matthew 28:20, and because the entire context of the book of Matthew makes clear that the alleged Matthew-author himself thought future Gentile disciples needed to be taught the Christ-sayings found in what is now chapter 10:19-20, it is reasonable, even if not infallible, to conclude that the author thought all future Christians must be taught to obey Matthew 10:19-20, as well as live out daily the mandate to avoid toiling for their clothes and food.

Which means your cute little gimmicks are actually interfering with the Holy Spirit's intended spontaneous leading. Nowhere did Jesus ever teach his disciples to study the OT or to tell converts to study it.  He commanded the disciples view the leading of the Spirit as a genuinely sponteneous thing wholly contrary to the "prepare yourselves" stuff you endorse in this modern culture.

Nothing spells "gratuitous afterthought" better than Christians who credit the Holy Spirit with their marketing gimmicks.

Cold Case Christianity: Christmas is Christmas Because Jesus is God

This is my reply to an article by J. Warner Wallace entitled

Cold Case Christianity: Christmas is Christmas Because Jesus is God

Posted: 22 Dec 2017 01:53 AM PST

79As we approach Christmas in just a few days, I’ve been thinking about what separates Jesus from other great religious figures of history. Many faith traditions lay claim to famous religious leaders and founders, but Jesus is different.

Correct.  Most religious leaders don't have half the self-contradictory and absurd descriptions as are given to Jesus.  Blame the stupidity on Philo and the Council of Nicaea.

Jesus claimed to be more than a good teacher or leader. Jesus claimed to be God. Some deny this truth about Jesus’ teaching, but the New Testament leaves little room for doubt: Jesus claimed to be God and taught this truth to His followers.
 He Spoke As Though He Was God

He also spoke as if he wasn't god.

While all Biblical prophets of God made statements on God’s behalf, they were careful to preface their proclamations with “This is what the LORD Almighty says,” or “This is what the LORD says,”

No, it is not always possible to distinguish the prophet from God.  Remember the story of God telling the Israelites how to use the bathroom?

 12 "You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there,
 13 and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement.
 14 "Since the LORD your God walks in the midst of your camp to deliver you and to defeat your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy; and He must not see anything indecent among you or He will turn away from you. (Deut. 23:12-14 NAU)

In describing God as "walking among you" and in teaching that God cannot see feces after it is buried in the ground, the author is ascribing limits to God that normally aren't admitted.  This is likely because God's presence among the Israelites constitutes nothing more than Moses' presence, in in that ancient context, such confusion of identities was accepted as something profound.

Otherwise, you'll have to explain how the omniscient all-seeing all-knowing creator of the universe can be prevented from seeing feces merely by burying it in the ground.  Stop pretending as if the only correct interpretation is the one that "makes sense".  You don't have the first fucking clue whether the author intended to "make sense" in the first place.  But you presume such anyway because you care more about impressing the Christians whom you mostly write for, than you do for the scholarly skeptics who continually refute your nonsense.

but Jesus never used such a preface. Instead, Jesus always prefaced his statements with, “Verily, verily, I say to you,” (KJV) or “I tell you the truth,” (NASB). Prophets spoke for God, but Jesus consistently spoke as God.

So then apparently it was a schizophrenic god who cried from the cross "why have you forsaken me"  Mark 15:34?  You will say Jesus only said that from his human nature not his divine nature.  But "nature" is not something that can be implicated or avoided.  If it is your "nature", then it is implicated in ALL that you say or do, it cannot be avoided.  So assuming for the sake of argument the logical absurdity that Jesus had "two natures", BOTH of them would be equally implicated in whatever he did, which would then mean you cannot allocate Jesus' cry of the Father's abandonment to just Jesus' human nature.   Therefore if Jesus said this, he also said it from his divine nature and not merely his human nature.

He Claimed the Title Used by God
Faithful Jews recognized the fact that God identified Himself to Moses as the great “I AM” (Exodus 3:14). Yet Jesus (in referring to Himself) told the Jewish religious leaders that “before Abraham was born, I AM”. They immediately recognized that He was identifying Himself as God and were so angered by this ‘blasphemy’ that they “picked up stones to stone him.”

But Jesus' attempt to use Psalm 82 to justify his claim to deity in John 10 strongly suggests that he was only claiming to be god in the same sense that Psalm 82 says human judges of the OT were sometimes referred to as Elohim.  If Jesus was God by nature and not by mere association or label, he would hardly use the humans-are-also-called-gods argument of Psalm 82 to convince the Jews that his claim to be god was accurate.

 30 "I and the Father are one."
 31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
 34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?
 35 "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God '?
 37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."   (Jn. 10:30-38 NAU)

It is Jesus' fault if I misunderstand his nature, since, allegedly as God, he could have made far more clear his relation to the Father, than he did with this controversial citation to Psalm 82.

God apparently loves us so much that whether we fry in hell forever depends on whether we can properly decipher his fortune cookie bullshit.

(Jesus also identified Himself as the great I AM in Mark 14:62, John 18:5-6, 8:24, and 8:28).

No, in Mark 14:62, Jesus is only saying "I am" in reply to the question "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One", which no more shows a claim to deity than if you say "I am" when somebody says "are you the owner of this car?":

 61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
 62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
 (Mk. 14:61-62 NAU)

In John 18:5-6, there's a "he" following "am", in which case, Jesus is simply admitting to being a specifically named person:

 3 Judas then, having received the Roman cohort and officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, came there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
 4 So Jesus, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and said to them, "Whom do you seek?"
 5 They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." He said to them, "I am He." And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them.
 6 So when He said to them, "I am He," they drew back and fell to the ground.
 7 Therefore He again asked them, "Whom do you seek?" And they said, "Jesus the Nazarene."
 8 Jesus answered, "I told you that I am He; so if you seek Me, let these go their way,"
 9 to fulfill the word which He spoke, "Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one."
 (Jn. 18:3-9 NAU)

In John 8:24 and 28, is the same, except for Jesus saying "I do nothing on my own initiative", a thing God the Father would never say:

 23 And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
 24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
 25 So they were saying to Him, "Who are You?" Jesus said to them, "What have I been saying to you from the beginning?
 26 "I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world."
 27 They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father.
 28 So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
 29 "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him." (Jn. 8:23-29 NAU)

You will say that the "I do nothing on my own initiative" was spoken solely from his human nature, but as I argued above, "nature" is not something that can be selectively implicated.  Whatever your nature is, is necessarily implicated in ALL that any person says and does.  So if Jesus had two natures (an absurd supposition on its own anyway), BOTH natures would be equally implicated in what he said or did, in which case it was also his divine nature implicated too, when he said he didn't do anything on his own initiative.

He Claimed the Home of God
Every time Jesus was asked about where he came from, He told His listeners that He came not from Bethlehem or Nazareth but from the same realm where God abides.

Which could just as easily be claimed by Enoch, Elijah or angels.

Jesus claimed to come “from above”. He repeatedly said that He was “not of this world” (John 8:23-24) and even told Pilate that he was a King whose Kingdom “is from another place” (John 18:36-37).

Apparently Jesus toned down his kingship claims when on trial.  Nothing in the Synoptics teaches that Jesus is anything less than the earthly King for his followers.  So when he says at trial "my kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36), he is clearly trying to pawn off on the Roman authorities (i.e., he was answering Pilate there) an interpretation of his purpose that would show no threat to the Romans.   Quite a dumbing down from his extroverted in-your-face claims to the contrary in Matthew 4:17.  Matthew 11:12 implies Jesus' kingdom was presently on the earth.

He Claimed Equality With God
Jesus said that God’s angels were His angels and that God’s Kingdom was His Kingdom (Matthew 13:41). Jesus even said that the judgment typically understood to be reserved for God was actually Jesus’ judgment to make (Luke 12:8-9). Jesus told His followers that when they saw Him, they saw God; if they knew Him, they knew God, and if they loved Him, they were loving God (John 14:6-9 and John 14:23).

He Saw No Distinction Between Himself and God
Finally, Jesus simply and plainly told His followers that there was no distinction between Himself and God the Father. When talking about the manner in which saints are selected for Salvation, Jesus said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:29). He did not mean that they were ‘one’ in purpose or power, but that they were one in identity. His hearers understood what He was saying and picked up stones again to stone him “for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).

Once again, you obviously don't give one holy fuck about answering skeptics, you write solely to make money helping other Christians feel better after the fact.  John was written last, all scholars acknowledge that in John there is a greater theological reflection going on than can be seen in the Synoptics, in which case you don't really know whether John is quoting Jesus in the way newspapers quote politicians, or if John is putting in Jesus' mouth a reworked version of what Jesus originally said.

Yet you run around acting as if the gospel of John was the equal of video tape despite many of your own conservative scholar brothers refusing to go that far.  Your blindly trusting proof-texting guarantees you intend to market to a gullible audience.

Like I said, you don't write to refute skeptics.  You write for the same reason most Christian con artists write, to use the Jesus-scandal to make money off of his gullible followers.