James Patrick Holding: libelous according to his own domain provider webnic.cc

Here is the email I sent that second domain provider, followed by their emails to me indicating they suspended the website:

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Barry Jones <barryjoneswhat@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 12:40 PM
Subject: one of your websites is hosting illegal content
To: <compliance_abuse@webnic.cc>

Hello,

Please send me a full copy of the "terms of service" that explain what website content you will allow and disallow.

My name is Christian Doscher.  I live at 6435 Doe St. SE Tumwater, WA. 98501, phone: (360) 339-3257.

email barryjoneswhat@gmail.com.

In 2008 I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, and I still receive social security benefits for 

this disability.

I am currently suing James Patrick Holding for libel.  

Doscher v. Holding, Florida Middle District, Case No. 6:19-cv-01322

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/29133402/Doscher_v_Holding  

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15937648/doscher-v-holding/ 

Most of the basis for such lawsuit arises from the content Mr. Holding posted to lawsuitagainstjamespatrickholding.com.  

See attached Complaint, page 3, footnote 1 ff.  The name of that website appears more than 20 times in that Complaint.

That website was previously suspended and removed from public access back when the domain provider was InMotion Hosting.  Here is their email to me:

InMotion Hosting Legal Admin Team
<legal-trac@inmotionhosting.com>
Tue, Jul 21, 4:32 AM to [External]
Hello, We have reviewed the account and have confirmed that the material or materials listed in the complaint were still present.  The account has now been suspended.
At this time we have closed this complaint.

As you can see, Mr. Holding is incapable of admitting wrong-doing, he simply resurrected this defamatory website by switching domain owners. 

Since InMotion Hosting removed the website because it was central to a currently pending libel lawsuit, I would ask you to do the same.

Mr. Holding actions are egregious, as not only are the comments about me on that website false, misleading and libelous, but Mr. Holding has known since 2015 that I suffer from an emotional disability, and he has previously manifested joy and glee in smearing me like this.  He does the same thing on his YouTube site tektontv, and at his other website tektonics.org, which contains a link to the libelous website I'm asking you to suspend.  See http://www.tektonics.org/skepticbud.htm

As I assume you refuse to host websites containing libelous content, especially where the content, as here, is the subject of currently pending litigation, you might consider a lawsuit against Mr. Holding yourself, for fraud.  He likely knew that if he had honestly told you about the content of the site he intended to upload, you would never have accepted his business, so he in effect defrauded you.

Sincerely,

Christian Doscher, Plaintiff

================================

First webnic.cc reply:

WebNIC Customer Support <support@webnic.cc>	Sat, Aug 22, 8:49 PM (6 days ago)
to me

Dear Team,
Greetings.
Thank you for highlighting this issue to us.

We have notified the respective parties to investigate this issue and take the necessary action.

We will revert back to you once there's any update.
Thank you.
Warm Regards,
Support
WebNIC

=================================


Second webnic.cc reply:

WebNIC Customer Support <support@webnic.cc>	Mon, Aug 24, 4:03 AM (4 days ago)
to me

Dear Team,
Greetings.
Kindly informed domain has no longer in use.

Should you need further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

Thank you.

Warm Regards,
Support
WebNIC

===============================


I think Mr. Holding's "followers" are equally as thick-headed as himself.  Every one of Holding's victories is a victory even if his follows neither know nor care about the details, and every time Holding gets shot down, this is surely also a victory since it merely proves one or more of God's enemies are unrighteously persecuting Holding.  LOL.

Which is stupid because all Christian scholars who know about Holding's juvenile delinquent antics are in agreement, including Mike Licona and Gary Habermas, that Holding's filthy obsessive libelous language is condemned 100% in the bible...no exceptions for responding to critics who publicly bait, criticize or taunt.

You can talk forever about how I'm "wrong".

But what you'll never prove is that I'm "unreasonable" to agree with all such scholars against Holding.

And if you are the type who thinks Holding has proven that most Christian scholars are just morons, then I guess I understand why you send your money to him, just like I understand the stupid fools who still send money to Robert Tilton despite his deserved downfall.

James Patrick Holding has committed perjury at least 10 times

My 5th libel lawsuit against James Patrick Holding starts with a Complaint that is 170 pages long, includes most of the content of the previous Complaints, and proves Holding has committed perjury in a court document at least 10 times.  

Update February 9, 2021:

I have since filed a "Third Amended Complaint", which is 534 pages long.  You'll be surprised to know that in Florida, where Holding lives and where I thus filed this lawsuit, truth is not an absolute defense to defamation.  If the truthful comment was posted with a bad motive, that is sufficient to impose defamation liability on Holding, and not merely on his Apologetics Afield corporation, but on Holding personally, as explained in the Complaint.  And what fool doesn't know that Holding, for the last 20 years, has demonstrated little more than an attitude of hostility, spite and ill-will toward everybody who dare challenge his religious opinions?  This Complaint compiles all of the disputed libels and demonstrated that Holding has committed the crime of perjury numerous times.  Download here. (update, October 13, 2021: the Court has since required that I filed a fourth amended Complaint. So I did, but it is less comprehensive than the earlier one.  The details that will satisfy Christians that James Patrick Holding is an unrepentant slanderer are not included in the fourth amended complaint, but regardless, that complaint still highlights Holding's illegal tax schemes.  Download here.

The most egregious of these instances of perjury was what I documented as his "tenth" act of perjury, namely, his having stated in a response to an interrogatory in 2015 that he has "never deliberately intended to insult anyone by his communications", an answer that is followed by his attorney's signature.  See page 486 ff.  You probably don't need to be told that I then use up 30 pages of the Complaint proving that Holding was not only lying here, he KNEW he was lying when he gave that answer.

James Patrick Holding never deliberately intended to insult anybody?  ARE YOU HIGH ON CRACK?

In a prior settlement offer, Holding proposed that I submit my counter-apologetics book drafts to him for editing, then he would assist me in getting them published.

So you might want to contact Holding and ask him what precedent there is in the New Testament for Christians to help anti-Christians publish anti-Christian works. jphold@att.net. His newer email address is: jphold99@gmail.com.   Or contact him by responding to one of his videos here.

Maybe he'll do a video on that subject, and shock the Christian world with an argument that Jesus might very well want a Christian to help a non-Christian publish blasphemy.

Then you might want to ask the world's smartest Christian defender of biblical inerrancy why there seems to be a contradiction between his desire to help anti-Christians publish anti-Christian works, and the apostle Paul's belief that anti-Christian speech must be suppressed (Titus 1:11, Psalm 101:3, Matthew 23:15).

UPDATE:
You may wonder whether Mr. Holding now understands that his prior "insult" style of apologetics was sinful.  I think he does, but he is also aware of the problems that bit of honesty creates.  If he admitted his slandering people in the past was sinful, he'd have to apologize to them, or at least to those whom he slandered the most, like me.

Mr. Holding is a big-mouth "know-it-all" who has constructed his internet presence to make sure he is constantly surrounded by decidedly less informed and fawning fans who salivate at his every word.  Apologizing would be a blow to his pride.  When you are plagued with the sin of pride as deeply as Mr. Holding is, you will not do anything that would entail that you apologize to anybody, ever.  If Holding was arrested for deliberately running over a small child in anger, he'd probably become a Calvinist before he ever got into the cop car.  If James Patrick Holding did it, then it cannot possibly be a sin.  But notice how the bible condemns Mr. Holding's filthy slanders and "reviling":


 9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.
 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. (1 Cor. 5:9-13 NAU)


 18 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
 19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
 20 "These are the things which defile the man; (Matt. 15:18-20 NAU)

 3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. (Eph. 5:3-5 NAU)

 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,
 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.
 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
 9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
 10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- (Col. 3:6-10 NAU)

I offer more here.  And here.  And here.

See especially my 2017 blog entry providing all the reasons Holding (a closet homosexual) is disqualified, under biblical criteria, from possessing any Christian "teacher" position.  See here.

I also just advertised this post at Holding's YouTube channel, here's a screenshot:

======================----------------------------

I also disclosed the latest to one of Holding's followers "Zachary Cawley", who surprised me with his wisdom in refusing to draw a conclusion until the end of the case:

The following was posted to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbSUszyDIZQ   on August 4,  about 4 pm Pacific Standard Time.

Barry Jones

2 hours ago

Praise Report:  "Christian" apologist James Patrick Holding was sued for libel due to many false statements he posted to a domain he purchased exclusively for the purpose.  The domain provider, InMotion Hosting, agreed with me that the content violated their terms of service, and accordingly suspended the website.

Just how much do you suppose that's going to hurt Holding's defense at trial?

See the details at https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/2020/08/james-patrick-holding-libelous.html

Maybe the world's smartest Christian apologist can now explain why he thinks InMotion Hosting's lawyers are "morons" or "dumbasses", since those are the epithets Holding has, for the last 20 years, hurled at anybody else who dare disagree with his opinions.  Only in this case, InMotion Hosting's lawyers are also disagreeing with the opinions of Holding's own lawyer, Scott Livingston. 

Zachary Cawley
35 minutes ago (edited)
What Holding's case has to do with this vid, I cannot fathom. Regardless, the types of people he calls "morons" are the ones that would not hesitate to hurl insults at him just for being a Christian. In which case, they receive their just desserts when called out for critcal errors in their exegesis of any given biblical text.
 So far as the civil case regarding "libel," it's probably going to end up the same as all the other defamation cases Doscher filed. Does he even have a reputation to speak of?
 EDIT: I find the fact you chose to bring that up here, when I said nothing of Holding and Doscher in the video, to be extremely telling. You are so eager to bring him and his supporters down, you are willing to disrupt the flow of the actual topic in order to do it. That is the impression I am getting, anyway.
 

 Barry Jones

30 minutes ago

@Zachary Cawley yes, he does.  But perhaps the more important concern for you is the bible's teaching that Christian "brothers" who constantly 'revile' others are not qualified to be "teachers", so that you need to stop viewing Holding as a teacher until he repents of his slanders:

 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, OR A REVILER, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.

 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. (1 Cor. 5:11-13 NAU)

Doesn't it bother you that while Mr. Holding wants to be viewed as a christian "teacher", he fails the biblical criteria for such office? 

 Zachary Cawley
19 minutes ago
@Barry Jones Last I checked, he is not a pastor anyway even if what you say is true. Also, I never said he was a teacher, so I have no idea where this is coming from. You have yet to even establish what those "slanderous" accusations were. I will wait for the close of the case to conclude anything, as I was not even aware of this new case you refer to. Quick to hear, slow to speak, in other words.

 Barry Jones

16 minutes ago

@Zachary Cawley You said "the types of people he calls "morons" are the ones that would not hesitate to hurl insults at him just for being a Christian."

I reply:

If he calls them names for the reason you gave, then he is violating NT ethics, which forbid retaliatory name-calling.   1st Peteter 2:21-23.

You said:  " In which case, they receive their just desserts when called out for critcal errors in their exegesis of any given biblical text."

I reply:

You got it all wrong, bro.  the bible specifically forbids you from fellowshipping with "brothers" who constantly "revile" others, 1st Cor, 5:9-13.

You said:

So far as the civil case regarding "libel," it's probably going to end up the same as all the other defamation cases Doscher filed.

I reply:

If InMotion Hosting's lawyer felt the content was sufficiently libelous to deem it a punishable violation of their terms of service, that counts as the professional legal opinion of somebody other than Doscher, that the libelous comments documented in his latest Complaint really are libelous.

You said:

 Does he even have a reputation to speak of?

  

I reply:

You don't understand Florida's libel law.  Florida does not accept the "libel-proof" doctrine, therefore, Florida does not recognize the notion that someone has such a bad reputation that it cannot be further tarnished by libel. 

You are also manifesting your spiritual immaturity.  the issue is not whether I have a reputation to speak of, but whether Holding has violated any biblical ethic applicable to him in defaming me.  He did.  Go ahead, google "bible defamation gossip slander reviling", the bible says nothing good about these vices.

You also forget that Holding's own mentor Gary Habermas stopped publicly endorsing him because of Holding's foul unChrist-like mouth.  Both Habermas and Licona condemn Holding's insulting-style in no uncertain terms, along with Dr. Rorhrbough, founding member of the Context Group, who said Holding's article justifying insulting speech was an "obvious perversion" of Rohrbaugh's work and the NT itself.  I can provide the documentation if you are interested

Barry Jones
11 minutes ago
@Zachary Cawley You said:
@Barry Jones Last I checked, he is not a pastor anyway even if what you say is true. "
 I reply:
that's irrelevant:  you can be a "teacher" without being a "pastor".  So his failing the teacher criteria continues to condemn his ministry, especially given that the express purpose of his ministry is to create "educational" materials.
 You said:
Also, I never said he was a teacher, so I have no idea where this is coming from.
 I reply:
You don't need to say he is a teacher.  Holding holds himself out as a Christian teacher, that's enough, it doesn't require your acceptance before his claim can be refuted from the bible and his own long list of "reviling" sins.
 you said:
You have yet to even establish what those "slanderous" accusations were.
 I reply,
that's why I gave you the link to that latest 170-page Complaint. Read it.
 Here's the blog page with the link, again:
https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/2020/06/james-patrick-holding-has-committed.html
 You said:   I will wait for the close of the case to conclude anything, as I was not even aware of this new case you refer to. Quick to hear, slow to speak, in other word
 I reply:
that's far wiser than most of Holding's followers, who cannot imagine him as anything other than a manga warrior who never does anything worthy of cutting off fellowship.
 

Barry Jones

6 minutes ago

@Zachary Cawley You said:

EDIT: I find the fact you chose to bring that up here, when I said nothing of Holding and Doscher in the video, to be extremely telling. You are so eager to bring him and his supporters down, you are willing to disrupt the flow of the actual topic in order to do it. That is the impression I am getting, anyway.

I reply:

that's the  wrong impression, I had no intention of disrupting a conversation, but I had no other way to get in contact with you, and regardless, if your faith hero is biblically disqualified from holding any office of Christian "teacher", that's probably more important, from a spiritual standpoint, than your youtube notification that you don't want to become involved in a spat between "eso" and "filthy".

Libel lawsuit: court approves of my request to file ECF

James Patrick Holding assured his readers, in the comment section of a youtube video, that they could consult his channel for "updates" on my libel lawsuit against him.

For unknown reasons, those comments have disappeared. 

My blog won't disappear however, and readers can stay updated here.

Since readers might wish to talk about or dispute any specific update, I will be creating new posts for each update in the future instead of just modifying one post and making it longer and longer.

Here's where we are so far:

• I filed the original complaint in court.  
• I sought to have the filing fee waived, which means the court must review the Complaint for possible frivolity or other problems before waiving the filing fee.
• The magistrate judge threatened dismissal with an Order using vague language accusing my Complaint of "loosely" alleging facts but not in any coherent complete fashion, and gave me a chance to "amend" the Complaint to cure such alleged pleading defects.
• I filed a motion for reconsideration of that Order, but in an abundance of caution, also filed a 1st Amended Complaint just to leave the Court one less excuse to tank the case.
• The court denied my motion for reconsideration, without going into why I was wrong to accuse the Order of being directly contrary to clear and binding precedent that requires liberality be extended toward "pro se" litigants.
• As of today, May 10, 2019, the Court  granted my motion to proceed in forma pauperis (i.e., waiving the filing fee).
• Granting such a motion means the Court also waived the expense of service of process, and directs the Clerk to assign a federal marshal to serve the papers on Defendant Apologetics Afield. 
• So if you were wondering why Mr. Mouthy Narcissitic Asshole Apologist suddenly got all demure in the last month or so and stopped yapping so frequently about the lawsuit, now you know why.  It looked for a while like Holding would get his wish and the Court would, again, tank my lawsuit on unjustified grounds.
• Now that Holding's dreams have had their brains bashed out against the rocks (Psalm 137:9), yes, we fully expect Mr. Mouth to suddenly discover that God has suddenly decided that he go back to being Mr. Mouth again.
• Then again, I sued Holding in a way that forced him to hire a real lawyer...and since Holding earlier testified on YouTube that his prior lawyer didn't see things his way and had to tell Holding things he didn't wish to hear, there's a fair chance that if Mr. Mouth doesn't return to his insulting ways, its because his lawyer has told him what his prior lawyer told him...Shut the fuck up with all of this online pestering of Doscher, it only makes it seem Doscher's criticism of you as an incorrigable know-it-all unlikely to change his ways, is correct, and might make the jury think only a higher amount of punitive damages has any hope of setting your stupid ass straight for the first time in your life.

(you can also watch the updates for free either at PacerMonitor here, or go to the Florida Middle District "recent opinion" page here and search the case titles for "Doscher", and if they have uploaded any order in the case, you'll get a pdf of the entire order)

For obvious reasons, I won't be making available online all of the material I plan to use or argue; no attorney in the world would say "yeah, just thrust everything in your argument out on the internet to satisfy the Christians infected with the Jerry Springer demon"

The link to my original Complaint is here.

The link to my motion for reconsideration and 1st Amended Complaint is here.

A rather comprehensive list of Holding's gayness and spiritual immaturity was recorded in the extensive Complaint I filed in the 2016 lawsuit. That Complaint and more can be downloaded from here.

I was going to post a bit more commentary, but for reasons I cannot disclose, I decline.  What I've already posted should give a fair clue as to the shit-storm Holding created for himself.  See here.

Since I presume Holding's followers will likely wish to dispute specific case developments that happen to go in my favor, I'll be making separate posts for all future updates.  Then again, Holding has probably already notified his pussy-followers than his lawyer recommends they not engage with me.  Which means they are more willing to follow worldly advice from non-Christian lawyers, than they are willing to act according to the "fuck you" style of apologetics they usually employ everywhere else on the internet.

My email about James Patrick Holding to Orlando Baptist

(See end for updates:  Holding threatened to post more about me if I talked disparagingly about him to third-parties, so I plan on talking disparagingly about him to as many third-parties as I have time to notify. Of course, ALL factual allegations I communicate to third parties concerning Holding are true).


Hello, 

I'm sure that you yourself as a Christian do not go around insulting everybody who disagree with you.  It's just sort of obvious that such conduct is unbecoming anybody naming the name of Christ.

But there is a Christian "apologist" living near you who does this, and you might find that his pathological need to constantly hurl filthy slurs at his critics might be a case of a sinful brother that could use your prayers.

His name is James Patrick Holding (formerly Robert Turkel). 
His address is  2609 GREYWALL AVE. OCOEE, FL 34761

His email is jphold@att.net

Jesus required you to view unrepentant sinful brothers the way 1st century Jews viewed Gentiles and tax-collectors:

 15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
 (Matt. 18:15-17 NAU)

The bible makes perfectly clear that Christians are to put away abusive speech and filthy language:

Ephesians 5

 3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Eph. 5:3-6 NAU)

Colossians 3

 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,
 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.
 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
 9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
 10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- (Col. 3:6-10 NAU)

The bible also makes it clear that if you know any "Christian" who commits the sin of "reviling", you are to disassociate yourself from him:

 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.
 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. (1 Cor. 5:11-13 NAU)

D.A. Carson notes that the modern church's shocking apathy toward this command of Paul:

The ease with which the present day church often passes judgment on the ethical or structural misconduct of the outside community is at times matched only by its reluctance to take action to remedy the ethical conduct of its own members. We have reversed Paul’s order of things.

Carson, D. A. (1994). New Bible commentary : 21st century edition. Rev. ed. of: The new Bible commentary. 3rd ed.
edited by D. Guthrie, J.A. Motyer. 1970. (4th ed.) (1 Co 5:9). Leicester, England; Downers Grove, Ill., USA: Inter-Varsity Press.

The NAU uses the world "reviler".  This word means "to subject to verbal abuse, vituperate, to use abusive language, rail..."
Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary. Includes index. (Eleventh ed.)

"Revile" in the Greek is λοίδορος / loidoros, and the standard lexical authorities say it refers to a person who constantly hurls abusive insulting speech at others:

Kittel-Bromiley
 1. loiÃdoros occurs in lists of vices in 1 Cor. 5:11 and 6:10. In Acts 23:4 Paul is asked why he reviles the high priest, and in his reply he recognizes a religious duty not to do so. In Mart. Pol. 9.3 the aged Polycarp cannot revile Christ; to do so would be blasphemy.
 2. Christians should try to avoid calumny (1 Tim. 5:14), but when exposed to it (cf. Mt. 5:11) they should follow Christ's example (1 Pet. 2:23; cf. Mt. 26:63; Jn. 18:23), repaying railing with blessing (1 Pet. 3:9). This is the apostolic way of 1 Cor. 4:12: “When reviled, we bless” (cf. Diog. 5.15). By this answer to calumny the reality of the new creation is manifested. [H. HANSE, IV, 293-94]

"The cognate noun λοιδορία, according to BAGD, 479, means “verbal abuse,” or “reproach.” 

D. B. Garlington, "Burden Bearing And The Recovery Of  Offending Christians (Galatians 6:1–5)"
Trinity Journal 12:2 (Fall 1991) 162

Every time this Greek word is used in the NT, it always carries the negative connotation of verbal abuse:

NAU Ps. 74:18  Remember this, O LORD, that the enemy has reviled, And a foolish people has spurned Your name.
NAU Jn. 9:28 They reviled him and said, "You are His disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
NAU 1 Cor. 4:12  and we toil, working with our own hands; when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure;
NAU 1 Pet. 2:23  and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;

The NET bible has "verbally abusive" at 1st Cor. 5:11, the NIV has "slanderer"

Mr. Holding generally identifies as Southern Baptist, but they are also strongly against the sin of slander. 
See http://www.sbclife.net/article/1549/acceptable-sins

Holding sometimes writes for the Christian Research Journal.  But CRI is also strongly against the sin of slander. 

See https://www.equip.org/article/reclaiming-civility-as-a-christian-virtue/

I think it appropriate to notify you and warn you of this Mr. Holding, since despite my having sued him for libel 3 times now, he has never once expressed the least bit of remorse for his sins of slander and reviling.  In fact, he appears to have been emboldened by each lawsuit to just go out and revile and slander me even more, hence the repeated lawsuits.  For these reasons, this is one of those exceptional situations calling for employment of Jesus' advice that we should tell the entire church about an alleged brother's consistent sinning and lack of remorse (Matthew 18:17).  

The problem is that Mr. Holding obviously wants the Christian world to believe he is properly qualified under biblical criteria to be a Christian "teacher".

Obviously he's delusional on that point, James 3:1 says:

Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren,
knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

What fool would say a Christian "apologist" who spews filthy language, can still somehow also be spiritually mature enough to qualify as a "teacher"?  

Let's put that another way:  How long can a Christian "apologist" live in direct defiance of Ephesians 5:4, and Colossians 3:8, before we are justified to say his claim to being genuinely born-again is suspect?    

If God really does view all sins as equally wicked (James 2:10-11), then it would not be consistent with the NT to trifle that Holding's slanders are less sinful than the sexual sins of a Christian who constantly commits adultery.  Now if you wouldn't allow a ceaselessly remorseless adulterer to teach Christians, why would you ever allow a ceaseless slanderer to teach Christians?

Holding's slanders became so incessant that two properly qualified Christian scholars, who formerly endorsed Holding's ministry, no longer do so.  I'm talking about Dr. Mike Licona and Dr. Gary Habermas.  Both men always advise Christians to avoid insulting people during apologetics discussions.

See here:   https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/2018/04/mike-licona-likely-thinks-james-patrick.html

Attached to this email are two pdf documents.

The first attachment is my 2016 libel lawsuit against Holding.  It is the most comprehensive documentation of Mr. Holding's sinful slanders, which makes it useful to those Christians who are, somehow, unaware of Mr. Holding's obsession with this sin. Starting at page 23 and paragraph 106 ff, you will find many quotes from Holding, showing that even other Christian apologists have complained about his homosexual tendencies, and that he uses filthy insulting slurs against anybody he disagrees with.

The second attachment is my current lawsuit against Holding.  Holding appears to have gone from "slander with pornographic filth" over to "slander by misrepresenting somebody's legal cases".

Other Christians constantly tell me that they are aware that Holding can be "harsh" in his apologetics, but I hope the above information will dispel that rumor.  "Harsh" isn't necessarily "sinful", so to call his words "harsh" is inaccurate, as it operates as an attempted but false moral defense of his language.  But as you can see, the person who takes the time to collect a comprehensive catalog of Holding's speech can show that it is more accurate to label it as "sin".

Or in this case, constantly repeated sin that Holding not only never repents of, but thinks is actually holy, just and good (!?).

I have extensively documented Mr. Holding's homosexuality and slanders at my blog:
https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/2018/01/james-patrick-holdings-quietly-deleted.html

I sincerely hope you will do what Jesus and Paul obviously required you to do.  If Holding has been doing Christian apologetics teaching for 20 years, and yet still manifests the fruit of a demented 12-year old juvenile delinquent, you'd be reasonable to conclude that genuinely born-again Christians, while having occasional problems with sin, more than likely wouldn't have THIS much of a problem with sin.  The "Christian" whose sins are at this level of obstinate pathology are more than likely fake Christians.  The reason they manifest no fruit of the spirit is precisely because they were never born again in the first place.  

You might consider the stupidity of allowing a fake Christian to teach real Christians about the bible.  Feel free to cc this warning to whomever you will.  I had to make the hard choice that warning other Christians away from Holding is more important than is my preference for privacy.

Sincerely,

Christian Doscher

 Update: February 25, 2019
I just forwarded this email to info@karlaelgin.com, this is Karla Elgin, counselor at
http://southorlandobaptist.org/who-we-are-2/church-staff/

James Patrick Holding's threats are laughable

Last week Holding posted this comment to one of his videos:

DecKrash1 week ago

If it's possible, you ought to use Weird Al's song, "I'll Sue Ya" as background music for the next video about this scumbag. :-P

tektontv1 week ago

I actually did refer to that song as exemplary of his work in a TheologyWeb thread in 2015. It offended him so deeply that he referred to it in his home state complaint. Just so everyone knows, I will be putting out at least one video/blog entry on Doscher every two weeks until he stops harassing me with lawsuits. In addition, if I find out or hear that he has written to anyone about me disparagingly, they will be sent links to any relevant documents such as the expert witness testimony on his bus "accident". I'm not playing any more.

First, I think Holding is a being irrational here:  He says he'll be posting one video/blog entry about me per week until I stop harassing him with lawsuits?  That doesn't even make sense: he knows this third libel lawsuit is going to remain in active litigation for at least the next year.  it isn't like I file lawsuits against him on a weekly or even yearly basis.

Second, he's also irrational because now that he has my 97-page Complaint, he knows exactly why I characterize as libelous his reports of my prior judicial proceedings.  If Mr. Holding continues to misrepresent those proceedings in future posts, I will be amending the Complaint to add new charges.  If his future reports on those judicial proceedings are not libelous, I'll be arguing that because Holding knew after February 21, 2019, how to report on those proceedings in a non-libelous way, he likely also knew how to do this in non-libelous fashion before that date, therefore, the libels as currently alleged in the Complaint were not the result of his mistaken understanding of libel law, but his willful flouting of it.

And given Holding's proud boasts in 2015 about what a legal scholar he is with his 7 years of running a law library, and the fact that he was sued twice in the past for libel, he likely won't be telling the jury in 2019 or 2020 that his misrepresentations in 2017-2019 of my prior court cases were because he was honestly ignorant of what the law required of him.  No sir, Mr. Know-It-All cannot plead ignorance...unless he wants the jury to think him dishonest.  That's the price you pay when you are a know-it-all...when you fuck up, you cannot plead ignorance, and at that point you look as culpable as it is possible to look.

Third, I must assume that Holding finally figured out that the cheapest lawyers (i.e., the Christian lawyers Holding went to first, who thus are the most likely to feel sorry for him and offer him a discount on legal fees in the name a' Jesus) felt that he was wrong, told him he was wrong, and as a result, he won't be misrepresenting my prior court cases anymore because he doesn't desire to lose more Christian friends.
(Holding has also already admitted in one of his YouTube posts that his own lawyer during the 2015 lawsuit told him he could gain an advantage by removing a libelous article about me...clearly this lawyer did not agree with Holding's morality or his interpretation of the law...leaving the readers to wonder:  Did Holding then call his own lawyer and 'dumbass' and 'moron', the way Holding calls names at anybody else who disagree with his infallible opinions?  If not, why not?  Is his name-calling arbitrary?  Does he play favorites the exact same way that any atheist would?).

Fourth, for those who wish to know how "scared" I am of Holding's threat to post more about me every time he finds out I talked about him with some new third-party, here is my response:

I recently did a google search for Holding, found out he gave a speech in 2007 at the Shepherd's Fellowship Baptist Church, so I emailed the senior pastor there and warned him about Holding, and we had a discussion, which included me providing said pastor with a copy of the 2019 Complaint.  When the pastor said he knew Holding's apologetics were harsh but didn't know he did anything wrong, I then sent the pastor a copy of the 2016 Florida Complaint...you know...the one which extensively documents Holding's repeatedly employing pornographically filthy slurs that show him to have the emotional maturity level of a demented 12-year old juvenile delinquent.

You know..the sins of abusive speech and slander that Holding has never, and will never, repent of?

Here is the email exchange so far:

a 3rd libel lawsuit against James Patrick Holding

Barry Jones <barryjoneswhat@gmail.com>

Feb 17, 2019, 3:33 PM (4 days ago)

to clifflea, pastor

Hello,

I understand that James Patrick Holding is or was a member of your church, according to

http://www.sfofgso.org/apologetic.asp.

Don't know if you are aware, but Mr. Holding's sins of reviling and slander are utterly out of control.

I had to file a civil lawsuit against him for libel.  You can keep up with the case here

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/26884971/Doscher_v_Apologetics_Afield,_Inc

The 97-page complaint is attached for your convenience.

I would ask that you start the Matthew 18 process, given that Mr. Holding's sins of slander have been on-going without ceasing for the last 20 years, he isn't known for much more.

 15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.    (Matt. 18:15-17 NAU)

 Attachments area

Cliff Lea           

Feb 19, 2019, 12:09 PM (2 days ago)

to me

Barry,

                I’m sorry for what you are going through in this case.  I know JP, but he has not been associated with our church in several years.  He attends a church in the Orlando area now…so I don’t sense the need for church discipline from us.

Sincerely in Christ, Pastor Cliff

Barry Jones <barryjoneswhat@gmail.com>  

Feb 19, 2019, 1:15 PM (2 days ago)  

to Cliff

Thank you for your response.

Well, do you have any ideas about what I might do?  Has Mr. Holding done anything that would warrant Christians in praying that God move him to repentance?

Cliff Lea        

Feb 19, 2019, 1:23 PM (2 days ago)  

to me

I don’t really have much to offer.  I have heard that he can be harsh in his apologetics, but I’ve never observed anything personally that caused me concern…

Barry Jones <barryjoneswhat@gmail.com>  

AttachmentsFeb 19, 2019, 1:40 PM (2 days ago)     

to Cliff

Ok, then FYI, attached is the 2nd libel lawsuit Complaint I had filed against Holding in 2016.

Go to page 23, paragraph 106 and following, I had to document Mr. Holding's immoral language.

Holding is not merely "harsh" in his apologetics, but so pornographically filthy that even other Christian apologists such as Steve Hays and Dr. James White have objected to it.

Any conservative evangelical would likely find Holding's slanderous abusive speech to be in violation of Ephesians 5:4 and Colossians 3:8----

 3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Eph. 5:3-6 NAU)

 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,

 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.

 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.

 9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,

 10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--   (Col. 3:6-10 NAU)

Once you read the attached 2016 Complaint, you'll likely find that Holding for the last

20 years has been that "brother" who constantly slanders or "reviles" others, the "brother"

whom Paul said must be expelled:

 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.

 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. (1 Cor. 5:11-13 NAU)

I am constantly flummoxed at how Holding can have such a filthy reputation and yet so many upstanding evangelical conservative Christians apparently either don't know or don't care about his many sins of slander.

    

Feb 20, 2019, 7:55 AM (1 day ago)

to me

HI Barry,

Thanks for reaching out. I haven't had a chance to look at your complaint yet, but I just wanted to let you know that the link you sent is just to a conference that took place back in 2007 in which he was one of our speakers. He was not then, nor has he ever been a member of our church. As far as I am aware, we have had no contact with him nor have we promoted him or his ministry in probably ten years. Sorry to hear about your situation though, I pray it is resolved.

Barry Jones <barryjoneswhat@gmail.com>  

Feb 20, 2019, 11:16 AM (1 day ago)

to Jeff

Might I get your scripturally based opinion then?

Do you believe the morality requirements in Ephesians 5:4 and Colossians 3:8 are absolute upon all genuinely born again Christians in all times, places and circumstances?

Or would you side with Mr. Holding and argue that such passages are limited in scope, and that using pornographically filthy language to slander and revile critics of Christianity is allowed for in the bible?  And thanks for praying about the situation.

------------------------------------------

Let's be generous:  I responded to this pastor FOUR times.  Therefore Holding can feel free to create 4 new posts/videos about me...as long as they show that he has, since I filed this latest lawsuit, learned how to stop violating comment F to the Restatement (Second) of Torts § 611.  (Once again, if his future posts report on those prior court cases in a fair, accurate and impartial manner, I will be arguing that Mr. Know-It-All knew how to do this between 2017-2019, the time when he composed the libelous posts now at issue in the current Complaint.  If his future posts about my prior court cases continue his pattern of misrepresentation, I'll be amending the Complaint to add new charges.  He will either comply with my wishes, or suffer legal penalties).

For obvious reasons, I fear Holding's threat to continue posting about me, about as much as I fear a newborn gazelle might possibly brutalize a pack of hungry lions.

Once again, James Patrick Holding is a remorseless obstinate pretentious cocksucker, who clearly thinks preserving his pride is always more important than honestly admitting his sins of slander and reviling.  But like a rabid pit bull, not even recent experience with getting kicked in the head ($21,000 in legal fees to get rid of my 2015 lawsuit) has any effect on him.  He bites the live electrical cords, sparks fly, he eyeballs melt, but animal instinct compels him to just keep chomping down regardless.


Like a reptile, he can do no other except repeat the past behavior that resulted in him sustaining serious injury.   I'd have more luck teaching an alligator to stop being a carnivore, than in convincing Holding to quit playing with fire.

I also strongly suspect that the Christian lawyers he's already contacted, conveniently became "too busy" to represent him after they read the 2019 Complaint.  While Holding has a lot of contacts within the Christian world, I'm betting $50 the exact lawyer that he ends up hiring in this case won't themselves be a Christian. Defending this bitch would require the services of a person who cares more about generating billable hours and less about whether his client is actually guilty as charged.  You won't find too many "Christian" lawyers like that.

What a scumbag, not even Christian lawyers will take his case!