James Patrick Holding's lies about that $20,000 debate offer

First, James Patrick Holding has configured his website to reject requests from my ISP.  If I search google for matters related to him, and I click any search hit that goes to tektonics.org, I get this:





Before you drool at Holding's feet again, you should ask yourself what good Holding thought it would do to make his webpage inaccessible to one of my ISPs. 

Holding cannot say he did it thinking that hampering my ability to access his materials would thus hamper my tendency to lie about him. I don't lie about him, and his recent YouTube posts clearly show that he lives for little more than instigating attacks and egging me on.  

It's far more likely that he is just being irrational for no other reason than that he was attacked, as he admitted to one of his own lawyers.  This comes from one of the hundreds of private messages and emails I forced Holding to disclose to me in the discover phase of the 2015 State lawsuit, the lack of precise date is Holding's fault because the original does not show any such date:

I had a very troubling late afternoon and evening. "Bud" is getting more and more obsessed with getting me out there. He wrote today that he would get me before a jury if it was "the last thing he did on earth." Ordinarily that may not mean much, but because he is mentally ill, and his disorder is the type that makes people prone to suicide or violence, I wondered if he wanted to kill himself. Then I began to think that his obsession to get to me in person, which he has had since 2008, was because he wanted to kill ME.

 

I was concerned enough to write some panicked emails to some people in Washington, asking if there was some sort of order or something I could ask for to keep me from having to ever be in the same room with him.

Maybe it was irrational. But I get irrational whenever I feel like something will happen that threatens the people I love.

Intellectually I know Bud's case is junk. I also know he's highly delusional, more so than ever now.

(while it's off topic, notice that in 2015, Holding was sincerely frightened that I was so dangerously mentally unstable I'd try to kill him...but since 2015, he has chosen to continue focusing on me in the exact way that he earlier feared would provoke me to murder him...his constant libelous internet posts.  And you think James Patrick Holding is spiritually mature christian apologist?  What else do you think?  Maybe that buildings talk to you when nobody is looking?)

Thanks, Mr. Holding, for admitting that you get irrational whenever you feel like your loved ones are being attacked (in this context, not physical harm but my litigation against you and your friends through the court system).  If it hadn't been for my success in court that far, the world would never have seen this proof that you believe yourself to be irrational during confrontation with critics.  Now your stupid followers can no longer tell themselves your a good guy.  Our charges that you are unreasonable and irrational are documented from your own mouth, and only because I forced you to disclose such impeaching truths through the litigation process).

Second, my latest googling of Holding indicates that he recently made a blog entry about a $20,000 promise I made to debate him years ago.  The article is entitled:

Monday, December 10, 2018 
Christian Behrend Doscher's $20,000 Promise

Therein, Holding makes various claims such as

While I was engaging him in debate on TheologyWeb in 2008, Doscher challenged me to a debate in front of my church and said he would pay me $20,000 for that debate. Because of a crash, the TheologyWeb version of that thread no longer exists except for a bit of it in an archive. But Doscher preserved a version of those events on an atheist forum that same year. Here’s what he said in a message dated October 6, 2008:

(since Holding, as usual, doesn't give the link to that "archive" so the reader can see the full context, I'll give what wayback has archived.  The first tweb page is here, the second is here.)

Holding gives the same type of misreprsentation in his video on the same subject. See here.

 Standard dictionaries have news for Holding and his babies: "lie" does not always mean "positively asserted falsehood".  The giving of a false impression is also correctly deemed a "lie":

lied; ly•ing \ˈlī-iŋ\ [ME, fr. OE lēogan; akin to OHG liogan to lie, OCS lŭgati] vi bef. 12c

1           : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

2           : to create a false or misleading impression vt : to bring about by telling lies 〈lied his way out of trouble〉

Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary.
Includes index. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc.

I accuse Holding of both forms of lying, but for purposes of this blog post, it is the second definition, "create a false impression" that I mean when I accuse Holding's comments about that $20,000 debate offer, to be "lies".

Holding, no doubt worried that I'd expose this lie, did what any good Pharisee would do, and hinted that he had "strung me along" because he was suspicious that my $20,000 debate offer was incincere.

From the linked "archive", supra, this is how it happened: When I offered to debate Holding, HE first demanded this $20,000 fee...then he started adding more and more completely absurd signs of his own bad faith in that offer.  From the linked archive, supra:

It is a waste of time to prepare for and conduct a debate with a cretin like that. (I'd much, much rather sit on stage with a thoughtful reader like shadowmaster and discuss an issue than debate it with a gleeb like Spitball.)

Even worse, gleebs like Spitball have NO IDEA how ignorant they are. They can never get past that Playskool understanding -- for whatever reason.

Why would I want to waste time on an oral debate with someone this knuckleheaded when it comes to exegesis?

Spitball, you'd have to pay at least TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS to make the time wasted worthwhile -- and I'd have you give it not to me, but to my church. Their care center (with stuff like their abortion counseling services) is in the red right now.

But truthfully, I wouldn't want to ask them to accept your filthy money either.

You'd also have to explain your qualifications and degrees first -- just as I have.

And I'd insist that as I come out to debate, Weird Al Yankovic's "Weasel Stomping Day" play on the sound system.
And that you wear a red clown nose,
and a T-shirt that says FUNDY ATHEIST during the debate.

It should be clear, therefore, that because Holding was the one who invented this $20,000 demand, and placed it in a context making it clear that he wasn't being serious, neither was I in my replies to such buffoonery.  Any reader who has the least familiarity with Holding's 20-year history of lying and smearing anybody that he disagrees with, would have little trouble recognizing the inherent foolishness of my offering this bitch any amount of money in actual sincerity.  I was simply pretending to believe his offer was sincere, and I correctly guessed that if I pressed him on it, he'd show his true colors and buckle.

While the wayback machine didn't archive that entire Tweb exchange, not all of the other proofs of Holding's insincerity disappeared.   I'm glad I posted about it in 2008 to another board, because I commented how as the discussion progressed, Holding's signs of insincerity grew out of proportion. At the other board I recalled:

First, he said I'd have to
wear a red clown nose
and t-shirt at the debate that said "atheist fundy" on it,
then he required me to pay $20,000 in advance to his church,
then he started increasing the price for every day I wasn't able to post a response,
then he demanded I advertise the debate at my own expense with a billboard in Florida, etc, etc.  (from here)

Furthermore, one can also safely glean from Holding's absurd extra conditions, that he was genuinely frightened by my offer to debate him live, and therefore went about creating several ways to avoid the debate while saving face. He even expresses his blunt unwillingness to debate with his comment 

"But truthfully, I wouldn't want to ask them to accept your filthy money either."

Not even the stupidest person in the world would think Holding's offer to debate live was the least bit serious.  The context makes clear just the opposite.

So it's also clear why Holding didn't give the readers the full story.  Had he done so, somebody might have asked him "you clearly were not sincere in your communications to Doscher...why would you expect Doscher to have been sincere in accepting your challenge?"

And for the record, yes, I was lying.  I wasn't sincere because I simply didn't have the money...but I wanted Holding to think I was sincere, because I knew he was nothing but a frightened weasel who would start backpedaling at the speed of light as soon as he was told to put up or shut up.  Apparently, my suspicious were correct.

Once again, when the actual facts are given to the viewer and they are supplied the appropriate links so they can examine the surviving source documents for themselves, they are left with a much more negative portrayal of Holding and his credibility, than they are if all they do is breastfeed, break toys, and refresh their webpage 6,000 times per day looking for the latest Holding screed to drool over.

There's always two sides to every story.  Including Holding's story that he is now telling "more" of the story.

I've been advised by counsel that feeding this troll by correcting his factual and legal misrepresentations will also have the effect of helping him prepare his defense to my third lawsuit.  I have no intention of helping my enemy defend himself, so I'm going to be resisting the urge to correct his misleading posts about me.  My proofs of Holding's pathological need to lie will be restricted to the court documents I filed in my third lawsuit against him...where he will be forced to do something more than yap to his babies if he wishes to refute my position.