Monday, April 23, 2018

Demolishing Triablogue: Steve Hays' unedifying rants about Trinitarianism

This is my reply to an article by Steve Hays entitled

Is the Trinity tritheistic?

Is the Trinity tritheistic? Compared to what?
Is a pancake a fruit?  Compared to what?  Gee, you were born to grasp issues early on.
What's the point of contrast in biblical monotheism? Pagan polytheism.
The question more likely to instigate objective answers is how likely it is that the ancient Hebrews viewed their god as a single 'person'.  They likely did.
Physical humanoid gods with superhuman, but finite abilities.
 I don't see the contrast with the biblical god, since the biblical god's powers are also limited:
 19 Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots. (Jdg. 1:19 NAU)
 Don't forget, as you rush to pay your resident apologist to answer this "alleged" discrepancy, that the reason Judah couldn't win the battle in the valley, is stated in the text rather clearly and it isn't "they lost faith in their god."  Try "because they had iron chariots."  Sorry Steve, but I care more about what the biblical authors actually meant, not whether what they said can be spun to avoid clashing with the untouchable foregone truth of bible inerrancy.
Gods who come into being, usually through sexual intercourse between a god and goddess.
That's how Matthew and Luke say Jesus came into existence, though of course Christians tweaked that motif to make it unique.
Gods who can pass out of existence. Gods who are physically and psychologically separate from each other. Who come into existence at different times. Some are the offspring of gods.
"we are all his offspring", Paul, quoting a pagan theological text in Acts 17:28.  If Paul didn't mean this in the original polytheistic way it was intended by the original author, then he took it out of context.
By contrast, Yahweh is immaterial.
A rather meaningless statement.  What's next?  A monograph on how incorporeal beings can move physical objects?  What else do you do in your spare time?  Wonder what life would be like if "cat" was spelled "d-o-g"?  Let's just say Steve Hays is anything but a threat to atheism.
Yahweh has no beginning or ending.
Neither does the universe. Now tell us all the reasons why you think all the creationist Christians at ICR are deaf to the holy spirit, all because they deny the big bang.
If there's internal differentiation in Yahweh, it's not tritheistic in the sense of pagan polytheism. Yet that's the biblical frame of reference by which something would be tritheistic.
 Then tell us, Steve:  Did the Father will for Jesus to say "let this cup pass" in Matthew 26:39, yes or no?  Did the father intend for Jesus to draw the conclusion that he was abandoned by the Father, as Jesus clearly thought when saying "Why have you forsaken me" (Matthew 27:46)?

Or will you write several articles on why only fools think "why have you forsaken me" implies being actually forsaken?   So, Steve, if God forsook "Jesus", does that permit drawing the conclusion that the First person of the Trinity (Father) abandoned the Second person of the Trinity (Jesus)?

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