Sunday, June 18, 2017

Does your God approve of pedophilia? Part 7: Ezekiel 16 establishes nothing except more apologetics embarrassment

Most Christian apologists, once confronted with the fact that the bible never specifies the age or conditions a girl must minimally reach to be qualified for marriage (i.e., the bible god doesn't appear to think martial pedophilia is sufficiently immoral to deserve specific commentary as much as "justification by faith"), immediately cite to God's having metaphorical sex with Jerusalem:
 1 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
 2 "Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations
 3 and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD to Jerusalem, "Your origin and your birth are from the land of the Canaanite, your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite.
 4 "As for your birth, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water for cleansing; you were not rubbed with salt or even wrapped in cloths.
 5 "No eye looked with pity on you to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you. Rather you were thrown out into the open field, for you were abhorred on the day you were born.
 6 "When I passed by you and saw you squirming in your blood, I said to you while you were in your blood, 'Live!' Yes, I said to you while you were in your blood, 'Live!'
 7 "I made you numerous like plants of the field. Then you grew up, became tall and reached the age for fine ornaments; your breasts were formed and your hair had grown. Yet you were naked and bare.
 8 "Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love; so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness. I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine," declares the Lord GOD. (Ezek. 16:1-8 NAU)
The argument goes like this:  Ezekiel's stating that metaphorical Jerusalem was ready for sex with God after her breasts had formed and her public hair had grown, necessarily implies that Israel in the days of Ezekiel, and thus likely also in the days of Moses, generally believed that the minimum age a girl must reach before she can be legitimately married and engage in sexual relations, was puberty, or about 12 years old.  And since God is speaking through Ezekiel here, that's the age God himself thinks is the appropriate marriageable age.

But there are numerous problems with using the text that way:

1 - God is concluding that the presence of boobs and pubic hair on a girl makes her ready for sex (v. 8), and yet today, if we hear anybody say girls are ready for sex after their boobs and pubic hair have grown, we assume the speakers are just stupid inbred rednecks who lack common sense and don't realize that readiness for sex is a complex thing that involves far more than what features the girl has developed.  Is your god an inbred redneck for thinking her signs of puberty means she's "ready" for sex?

2 - Ezekiel was an exilic prophet, the Israel he represented were captives of Babylon (about 600 b.c.).  Yes, he could well be representing a tradition here that goes back to Moses, but since Moses lived around 1300 b.c., you'd have to say that Ezekiel's view on this minimal marriageable age, properly represents what the Hebrews from 700 years previous also believed about the minimum age of marriage.  If you insist the tradition is consistent, you leave yourself little reason to complain that the Rabbis and Sages of the Babylonian Talmud (700 a.d), who permitted adult men to use sexual intercourse with three year old girls to achieve betrothal, properly represented the earlier Jewish beliefs of the first century and before.  And given that Judaism itself evolved many theological ideas and caused many factions (Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Samaritan Jews), the only person who would say Ezekiel is representative of the earlier Judaism from 700 years prior, would be fundamentalists who have their suicide guns at hand, ready to the pull the trigger if the least bit of imperfection should show up in the bible.

3 - I don't say marital pedophilia was normative in ancient Judaism.  All I claim is that there is no evidence from the bible that God viewed the act as "sin".  In that case, there is no problem accepting Ezekiel's view as normative of ancient Jewish morals.  What he doesn't address is how far this model could be deviated from without going off into sin.  And since James Patrick Holding has specified that he was allowing for some deviation one way or the other from the 12-year old age he proposed as the ancient Hebrew age for marriage, it would appear that where the minimal boundary age or conditions be, is more or less a subjective thing, and for that reason, Christians cannot use their subjective judgment call on the matter and pretend this is God's own view.  God thinks it normative to set the age of marriage at 12, but the question whether God views marriage below this age as "sin", is not answered.

Once again, the issue is not what was normative among ancient Jews.  The issue is whether the god of the bible views sex within adult-child marriages as sin.  Showing what God thinks is "normative" does not automatically require that any deviation from this would be viewed as "sin".  Sin is never defined int he bible as deviation from the norm, but only deviation from God's law.

And under the absolutist reasoning of Romans 13:1, it must have been God that enacted the secular 19th century Delaware rape-law that set the age of sexual consent at 7.  I've argued elsewhere that Paul appears to have meant that it truly is God who sets up even the secular governments whose laws violate the divine law.  Romans 9, God "raised up Pharaoh".

Does your God approve of pedophilia? Part 6: God expects Hebrews to use their "common sense"

Most Christian apologists, when confronted with the fact that the bible nowhere specifies the conditions and age that a girl must meet to be eligible for marriage, immediately mistake their cultural conditioning for the movement of the Holy Spirit, and insist that not everything was written in the bible, because God expected people to use their "common sense".

This is what John Sparks, the owner of theologyweb.com, argued in 2016:
08-11-2016, 09:20 PM #20 rogue06
Quote Originally Posted by The Thinker   
There is no age of consent in the Bible and Yahweh never says you must be over X age before you can have sex or marry. And older men marrying girls as young as 9 occurred back then. So if you feel that pedophilia is morally wrong, on what basis is it wrong on your view?     
There are a lot of things not specifically mentioned in the Bible because it was considered self-evident or common sense. So much for the claim that    
 If we use the "common sense" approach, then we have to ask why God placed in the bible a specific prohibition against bestiality:
 23 'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. (Lev. 18:23 NAU)
 Indeed, God apparently thought one single prohibition wasn't sufficient:
Exo 22:19 "Whoever lies with an animal shall surely be put to death.
Lev 20:12 If there is a man who lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed incest, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
Lev 20:15 If there is a man who lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death; you shall also kill the animal.
Lev 20:16 If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
Deu 27:21 Cursed is he who lies with any animal. And all the people shall say, Amen.
If God thought the Hebrews would recognize via common sense that bestiality was sin, why did he include a specific prohibition against it in the bible?

Could it be that God's preference to specifically prohibit even the more obviously immoral sins, suggests that he didn't intend to allow humans to decide for themselves which acts were sinful?

Could it be that you really cannot fix the bible's silence on marital pedophilia by saying God expects us to use our common sense?

The Hebrews believed in burning their adolescent daughters to death should those girls have engaged in pre-marital sex:
Gen 38:24 Now it was about three months later that Judah was informed, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar has played the harlot, and behold, she is also with child by harlotry." Then Judah said, "Bring her out and let her be burned!"
Lev 20:14 If there is a man who marries a woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no immorality in your midst.
Lev 21:9  'Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.
If the Hebrews could depart so far from what modern Christian apologists believe is common sense morality/justice, then it is rather stupid of them to just blindly assume the Hebrews thought like us, wherever the bible is silent about a moral issue.

When you think about a father tying his daughter to a post a burning her to death because she lost her virginity to her boyfriend, and you wince and are totally horrified by such a thought, is that attitude of yours from the same Holy Spirit who inspired the above-cited bible verses, yes or no?

Why is God so psychotically pissed off at this sin in the days of Moses, but according to you, today God doesn't think such girls should be burned to death?  God doesn't change, does he?

For all these reasons, it is highly unlikely that the reason 'god' stayed silent on pedophilia is because he expected people to use their common sense.  All that would prove is that the reason God prohibits bestility multiple times in the Mosaic writings is because God did not expect the Hebrews to recognize this obvious sin solely by their common sense.

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Bart Ehrman, like thousands of other skeptics, uses Mark 3:21 and John 7:5 to argue that Jesus' virgin birth (VB) is fiction.  Jason Eng...